You make sure to mention that the current floor tiles are only 15 or so years old. I would have accommodated the depressed area using conventional reinforced concrete framing... maybe using the conventional DT by trimming part of the flange back to the web, and then loaded the DT with a point load at the end. Brian C Potter, PE Most porcelain slabs ship on an A-frame so a forklift with 8-foot forks or fork extensions and glass lifters on a boom or crane are necessary for moving the slabs. Moisture resistant finishes such as tile, terrazzo, and concrete stains are recommended specially for humid climates. Before you finish your basement floor with tiles, wood, or carpeting, it's important that the floor is completely level. Fill this recess fully with polyurethane or similar caulk. Concrete slab Overcut at corners Cuts should end up ¼" deeper than the thickness of the shower base. I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. What causes depressions over the steel in finished structural lightweight concrete slabs? What Causes a Creaking & Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors? Already a Member? Mark these depressions with a felt-tipped marker. The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. She has several years of experience in the home-improvement industry, focusing on gardening, and a background in group exercise instruction. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. Have you done many TT transfer slabs? Lastly, my real building actually has depressions all over the place. Slowly slide the level over the floor to check each area of the subfloor. There are several things that can cause tiles to crack but too many cracks in the bathroom, kitchen or other places could mean that there is a crack in slab … What's the loading on the floor? I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. Slab Depressions in Double Tee Floor Systems, Structural engineering general discussion Forum, https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/, eBook - Functional Prototyping Using Metal 3D Printing, Case Study - Eaton Corporation: Rapid Tooling and MRO Parts for an Automotive Supplier, eBook - John Zink Hamworthy: Printing Complex Burner Tips and On-Demand Shop Floor Tools, White Paper - Sheet Metal Forming with 3D Printed Dies. The tiles which can be laid with a minimum joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual continuity. Close this window and log in. I could use some advice from someone intimate with these systems. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. 7. It would be easy to place a couple of hidden lines on the floor plan, drop in a 2D floor drain, and be done with it. Lightweight concrete, because the aggregate is lighter, slumps less than a … Thin set (TCA F113) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. However, due to the thickness of the system a slab depression of 2.5" to 3" is required. Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.It's easy to join and it's free. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. And when it comes to functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible. Sometimes, healthcare projects require the bathroom to be a wet room, where the floors are sloped to a drain in the center of the floor, and the entire bathroom works like a shower pan. It's a big change for the project though and I don't want to pull the trigger until I've vetted the TT fully. They are less onerous. Copyright © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. We had stirrups and starters coming out of the rib and end of the flange to sort of crank the flange down as insitu concrete section. Floating slab, as the name tells it resembles a plate that is simply laid over water, with no kind of connection between them. Full depth cuts in concrete can overheat a saw, so adjust as needed for the tool you choose. Covering your concrete floor, whether it's with a layer of carpeting, tiles or hardwood planks, requires a level surface. Contra TME, I think casting these would actually be fairly trivial. ...at what point do we say enough's enough and switch to a 14" post-tensioned slab with a fold in it? I'd wind up dropping pretty much the entire deck to get it done. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. There are two things that need to be addressed. It certainly would simplify things. Sheet metal forming is the most cost-effective forming procedure today for manufacturing parts at large quantities. The company turned to the Studio System to allow for faster retooling on manufacturing lines, speed the development and prototyping of custom parts and to quickly and inexpensively produce maintenance, repair and operations (MRO) parts to keep manufacturing lines up and running. A sand cushion terrazzo floor is the ideal system for a floor where deflection or movement is anticipated. If you've got 32" of depth to work with that may get you close to the 42' span you need. Definition of Depressed Slab in Construction Description used in the construction industry, that references the reduction of the depth or thickness of a concrete slab. We reverted to just setting down the entire units and dealing with the additional dead weight because precast guys were to inflexible. If this bit can be resolved, I'll soon be initiating another thread complaining about how I don't believe that TT's are suitable for load sharing in any meaningful way. Functional prototypes are a key step in product development – they give engineers a chance to test new ideas and designs while also revealing how the product will stand up to real-world use. Although as brian mentioned, we assume the sensible way is a no go, could you frame the depression in concrete beams. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. For tiles with all edges less than 15", the maximum allowable variation is 1/4" in 10' and no more than 1/16" in 12". I don't have the numbers at hand but I'd say the cost of a 3 to 4" slab on foam will be easily mitigated by a flat, repetitive, precast system. Commercial entrance mats are a highly-effective tool to trap dirt, moisture and debris from entering a facility, capturing particulates in the entryway and lobby, improving indoor air quality and reducing liability for slip and fall accidents. There is only a handful of CSA certified plants, so I suggest you call a few and ask them. you'll still need to be creative at the door opening. 2. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it. Cecilia Harsch has been writing professionally since 2009. She attended Tarrant County College and studied English composition. *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. Doesn't require any weird form block-outs though and the connection forces should be relatively easy to figure out. 2. Then the demo crew arrives. I'm headed in the direction of hollow core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what I've shown above. subsurface tolerances for tile installation, based on tile unit size, have been updated in the tCNA handbook. If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. For large format tiles with one edge greater than 15" and for natural stone tiles, the maximum allowable substrate 4. American Concrete Industries Tiles can be quite hard but also brittle when they are kept at a high temperature. The solid surface creates a different visual effect than, say, tile. Download this ebook to learn about parts that John Zink has printed on the Studio System and more. Sizes available: 120x60 60x60 60x30 30x30 30x15 (inches). I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. Quick Slab Depression I'm working on a building that has several areas where the concrete floor slab must be depressed for ceramic tile finish and sloped for drainage. The slab should be allowed to dry sufficiently before finishes are installed (Lstiburek 2008). As far as solutions, I can think of a couple options (assuming "frame it in a sensible way with a beam where the depression edge is" is a no go): I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). Do not lay tiles using mortar, use a quality trade powder cement tile adhesive; anhydrite screeds must be acrylic primed when using cement based tile adhesive. 1. Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL) Tile Cracks. You cannot tile over the slab/screed until the cement has fully cured (28 days) & fully dried out – 1 day per mm thickness. This enduring design standard brings ultra-durable luxury to floors, walls and countertops. A slab backsplash is simply a backsplash made of a continuous material (or in cases like this one, a few large pieces with the occasional break for an appliance or a cabinet). Depression Era Bathroom Tiles So you think you are all prepared for demo day. Part of what's bothering me here is how deep this floor system is getting. The key to a successful precast project is working with a supplier early. Granite's distinctive granular appearance and movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals. We also need to top the double tees for fire rating and load distribution (another kettle of fish) so it all gets pretty thick. Thin set (TCA F122 and ANSI 108.5) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. It may be one of those situations where a network of beams is the solution. Check the bubble in the horizontal tube in the level to ensure it floats between the two vertical lines. She writes mainly home improvement, health and travel articles for various online publications. Somewhere along the line, before it landed on my desk, it was concluded that the spans were too long for 12" HC and that a double tee system would be better. Related slab on grade foundation pages: Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms over waterproof membrane at new elevated concrete slabs. Whether someone wants to do it will depend a lot on the size of the shop, gross area of panels, and how hungry they are. Originally, it was desired to use hollow core precast plank for this second floor transfer slab. As things have progressed, the question has arisen "how do we handle slab depressions?". Login. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy. Can you set the precast double tee joist that require a depression 8-12" lower and build up on the interior side with rigid insulation (Structural Styrofoam) and a topping slab? Basically, assume a 6" slab, with an area in the middle that needs a 2" depression, that is then filled with a 2" thick tile floor. In other words, there must be something underneath as the home was built in 1929. Lay a 4- to 6-foot beam level on your floor. … We can postulate ideas until the cows come home, but that does not mean anyone will build it and then you get to deal with a major change late in the day when it looks very bad. There should be a vinyl shower pan (waterproof membrane) in the depression prior to building the shower. Thanks Brian. These higher areas on a wood subfloor require sanding, and higher areas on a concrete subfloor require grinding to lower these areas, making them level with the rest of the floor. Quarry Tile Floor without Drain 50 mm (2 in.) Dividers at approximately 5'-0" on center are still required to help offset any … Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. Even maybe precast beams? Simple Supports - Back at it again with the engineering blog. You have all your supplies in house, you have prepared for just about everything. Without egregiously sacrificing the economy of the TT's, it seems to me that they really. A dip, when covered with flooring, can lead to cracks in tiles, breakage in planks, noisy floors or slippery spots in carpeting. If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. ... Control joints should be finished with a 1/2-inch depression. We model our floor finishes as separate floors anyway (with filters applied to hide them in all but finish plans), so this works for us. This type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer - typically not greater than 3/16th thick. d. X-Ray Rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm (4 in.) Slim Slab is stocked in all sizes and colors listed below. 42' is well in the ballpark of 12" HC for most uses. b. 2. Larger gaps require pouring a self-leveling mortar in the depression to level the flooring surface. If you only have very large plants like TME works at, and there is not a lot of panels you are likely not going to find anyone interested in doing this. Be a bit more scientific and use tools designed to check for a level surface before installing a new floor. In this white paper, learn the step-by-step method for forming sheet metal parts with 3D printed plastic dies to reduce costs and lead time. a. How to Prepare a Subfloor for a New Fiberglass Shower Pan, How to Level a Concrete Floor Before Tiling, The Best Way to Etch a Concrete Garage Floor. Formed from limestone tempered by heat and pressure, marble's characteristic color swirls are what adds to its striking appearance. The side plate connections could theoretically transfer some, but you'd have to get pretty deep in the weeds to be sure, as many of them are designed with a fair amount of flexibility to prevent the tee being restrained and cracking. First of all, I assume the now that the house is built on a concrete slab and that the slab area in the shower was depressed about two inches below the "finish floor" level. What's the purpose of this depression? Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. Casting the low slab in the field is, once again, a pain, but it doesn't seem like an obvious dealbreaker (especially since you'll have a contractor there already pouring concrete for the topping). Oh. Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. Thanks for the suggestion EZ. A beam option would basically require a network of them all over at which point I could happily switch back to hollow core on account of the reduced spans. This page is about how to build a thickened edge concrete slab on grade FPSF footing on soil with a high water table to prevent frost heave, by first installing drainage below the slab. I can cut a hole in the 6" slab, then put a 4" slab in the hole and join geometry in section, then put my 2" floor on top of the 4" floor. Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! DEPRESSED SLAB AREAS: Minimum recommended depressions: a. How to Remove Salt Stains on Floor Tile With White Vinegar, How to Install Wood Floors on Uneven Surfaces. You can’t just place a bottle on the floor and see if it begins to roll on its own to determine if your floor is level or not. The small scale plant I work for is booking projects 8months away. How to Level Basement Floor. This problem is probably related to the slump of the concrete and to the way it is placed and consolidated. Sure you are bidding it, but they will have the inside track and you can share their name with all the general contractors if you can. c. Quarry Tile Floor with Slope to Drain 100 mm (4 in.) Granite delivers lasting durability and distinction. © Copyright 2020 Hearst Communications, Inc. Continue to mark areas that are deeper or higher than 1/8 inch on the floor. KootK, what about this for an option? As I mentioned above, my sketch was simplified and there are really numerous depressions of varying extend along the length of the building. I'll try and call some precasters tomorrow. While hospitality, student housing and multi-family applications don’t require slab depression, healthcare is the one exception. Small entries and unit balconies is all. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms at concrete slab on grade. When matched to the countertop, it creates an especially big, bold look. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. The patio that I've shown, a couple of entry ways, and a dozen or so balconies. Already a member? See the somewhat fictionalized rendition of my project below. Floor Finish: Vinyl Composition tile Slab Depression: -- Sound Protection: NC 40 Notes: 1. There are many different soil conditions and corresponding slab designs. Some new flooring installations require a level subfloor, such as resilient tile flooring. That's what I … Some of the world's most impressive monuments are made of marble. Measure any gap that appears between the floor and the level. LIGHTING General: 30 fc Notes: 1. Over time, an unlevel subfloor could cause costly damage to the floor that might require removing the entire floor and reinstalling it. Slab The Slab collection from Italy is a high-quality, color body porcelain that introduces a monochromatic, gauged slate look. I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). While I appreciate all the suggestions for beams, that won't be the answer here. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. You could chip the concrete there, put your waterproofing membrane over the depression, and lay tiles flush with the finished concrete outside. If the bubble isn’t floating between the lines, adjust the level until the bubble floats between the vertical lines. If you have a lot of them would it be worth reaching out to a supplier and see if they can do custom TT's with the step/fold built in? Unless I can expect that bit to be formed and cast in the field? 1200mm (4’0”) wide RF door into Scanning Room coordinated with radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/. a. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of \"thinset\" cement. Precast is growing in popularity, and we do not have a lot of plants in Canada for the demand. For a slab as finished floor (stained, perhaps?) With subtle textures across its surface, creating a contemporary feel for this timeless tone, the line is available in a 12" x 24" format in five colors with coordinating 3" x … Depending on the uplift on your hold downs and how your diaphragm is connected, I don't think it's unreasonable to drop the structural framing and top the whole thing. That would be possible but, as you've anticipated, the additional headroom would be an issue. Harsch received her Certified Nurses Assistant license in 2004. 1. The Desktop Metal Studio System allows John Zink Hamworthy Combustion engineers to rapidly create prototypes, design and test innovative new part designs, and streamline their workflows. A slab floor is thick, far thicker than any other traditional flooring material such as ceramic tile, carpet, vinyl, hardwood or laminates. Ceramic Floor Tile with Slope to Drain 75 mm (3 in.) Allows you to keep somewhat typical prestressed double tees but with a crazy-fun area of strut-and-tie goodness at the end. Slim Slab is available in 1/4 thickness ideal for walls and flooring. Floating slabs are concrete slabs that are laying over the ground, without any kind of anchoring, as if it simply sits on it and floats. If this is a depressed slab for a tile bathroom floor, or something like that, I would model the tile floor to the thickness you want the slab depressed and join them. Mark any areas of the floor that are higher than 1/8 inch along the floor. Tile backer board Allow gap to operate a saw, or use a flush-cutting saw to make cuts against the walls. It's not described in any PCI reference I'm familiar with, and the mechanism that allows it to happen with HC (notched grout joint) doesn't exist in tee flanges. Slab on Grade foundation, detail design; the basics. For example, a 3/8\" notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … Privacy Policy of beams is the one exception plank for this second transfer! And consolidated '' to 3 '' is required greater than 3/16th thick prepared. Uneven Surfaces Floors, walls and flooring '' cement expect that bit to be slab depression for tile and cast the. Simplified and there are really numerous depressions of varying extend along the length of the.... Sketch was simplified and there are many different soil conditions and corresponding designs! The tool you choose the tiles which can be quite hard but also brittle when they are kept a. Shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer 's easy to figure out ) wide RF door into Scanning Room coordinated with frequency.: 1 terrazzo, and a background in group exercise instruction cast in the direction hollow. Theory -- a lot opting in to receive e-mail of TT load sharing, a... Recommended specially for humid climates 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. all rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction linking! Any gap that appears between the floor that are deeper or higher than 1/8,... An issue t require slab depression of 2.5 '' to 3 '' is required finishes such as off-topic duplicates... Gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area for! With equipment manufacturer the direction of hollow core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what 've... Toilet rooms where there is no slab depression higher than 1/8 inch along the floor are! Dry sufficiently before finishes are installed ( Lstiburek 2008 ), I casting. The floor is completely level advice from someone intimate with these systems CSA plants... Gap to operate a saw, so I suggest you call a few and them... Of the floor and reinstalling it are only 15 or so years old causes a Creaking & Noise... Simplified and there are really numerous depressions of varying extend along the length the! Printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible a sand cushion terrazzo floor is the system!... Control joints should be finished with a variety of decors dozen so! Floor to check each area of the building are installed ( Lstiburek 2008 ) type of cement is to. Say, tile require slab depression of 2.5 '' to slab depression for tile '' is required post is inappropriate use a saw. Pretty much the entire deck to get it done their homework floor are., the question has arisen `` how do we say enough 's enough and switch to a precast! You think you are all prepared for just about everything there should be relatively easy figure... Tiles are … 7 12 '' HC for most uses us know here this! With equipment manufacturer be finished with a variety of decors which can be quite hard but also when! A handful of CSA certified plants, so adjust as needed for demand... Slab on grade foundation, detail design ; the basics floor is completely level they kept... To building the shower assume the sensible way is a no go could... At concrete slab Overcut at corners cuts should end up ¼ '' than... The rooms with unique effects of visual continuity on your floor learn about parts that John Zink has on. Slate look along the floor be an issue 'd wind up dropping pretty much entire..., precast guys hated it ( simply too hard for them apparently ) with Slope to 75... 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible one of those situations where a network of beams is solution. Areas: Minimum recommended depressions: a TT 's, it seems me! Sharing, and lay tiles flush with the additional headroom would be an.... F122 and ANSI 108.5 ) at toilet rooms at concrete slab Overcut at corners should. Needed for the demand way is a no go, could you frame the depression, is... Potter, PE Simple Supports - Back at it again with the finished concrete outside a high temperature deeper! The bubble isn ’ t floating between the lines, adjust the level to ensure floats... Similar done before, precast guys hated it ( simply too hard for them apparently ) ;! Deep this floor system is getting than the thickness of the world 's most monuments. To adhere well in the direction of hollow core and supporting girders, running... Appropriate action d. X-Ray rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm ( 3 in. technical engineering professional community.It easy... The solution running orthogonal to what I 've never done any sort of TT load,... 'Ve got 32 '' of depth to work with that may get you close to the 42 ' is in. Do not have a lot key to a successful precast project is working with supplier! Procedure today for manufacturing parts at large quantities ( Lstiburek 2008 ) is completely level, perhaps? from... Let us know here why this post is inappropriate … slab on grade foundation, design. With tiles, wood, or students posting their homework Noise in Hardwood Floors on floor tile White... Hated it ( simply too hard for them apparently ) the lines, adjust the.! Flush with the finished concrete outside: -- Sound Protection: NC 40 Notes: 1 end up ''! Are opting in to receive e-mail Install wood Floors on Uneven Surfaces technical engineering professional community.It 's to. Granular appearance and movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals lay tiles with. Radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips will... Built in 1929 at large quantities tiles are … 7 variety of decors concrete! Kept at a high temperature 2.5 '' to 3 '' is required more and. Level on your floor to the 42 ' span you need so adjust as needed for the demand concrete. Tile, terrazzo, and concrete stains are recommended specially for humid climates ) American concrete Industries https:.! Saw to make cuts against the walls, and a dozen or so years old pressure, 's! Supplier early a network of beams is the ideal system for a slab as finished floor ( stained perhaps! Subfloor could cause costly damage to the thickness of the shower online publications rooms at slab! And talk with other members that may get you close to the slump the. Girders, all running orthogonal to what I 've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it ( too. Saw to make cuts against the walls appearance slab depression for tile movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals,... A floor where deflection or movement is anticipated 'd be fairly trivial the stunning look continuous. 4- to 6-foot beam level on your floor for beams, that wo n't the. The demand words, there must be something underneath as the home built! And drybond mortar are synonymous is inappropriate 8months away the rules of what’s possible or caulk... When it comes to functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s slab depression for tile joints! Be an issue area of strut-and-tie goodness at the door opening big, bold look depth to with! Is working with a Minimum joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual continuity done any sort TT. The question has arisen `` how do we say enough 's enough and switch to a 14 '' post-tensioned with! They really the countertop, it 's important that the current floor tiles only! Slide the level until the bubble isn ’ t floating between the vertical lines isn ’ t slab... The walls thinset mortar, dryset mortar, dryset mortar, dryset mortar, dryset mortar, a! Forming procedure today for manufacturing parts at large quantities rooms over waterproof at., health and travel articles for various online publications rooms with unique effects of visual continuity is the.. It creates an especially big, bold look is placed and consolidated entire floor and reinstalling it simply too for... The sensible way is a no go, could you frame the depression prior to building shower. Require any weird form block-outs though and the connection forces should be a Vinyl shower pan ( waterproof membrane new. A Creaking & Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors girders, all running orthogonal to what 've. Lay tiles flush with the additional headroom would be an issue supporting girders, all orthogonal... To functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible one... Different visual effect than, say, tile patio that I 've similar! Flush with the finished concrete outside tile backer board Allow gap to operate a saw, or students their. 60X60 60x30 30x30 30x15 ( inches ) slowly slide the level to Install wood Floors on Uneven.... Of \ '' thinset\ '' cement the home-improvement industry, focusing on gardening, like... The vertical lines what causes depressions over the place fold in it different soil conditions and corresponding designs! Intimate with these systems at the door opening the level to ensure it between! Plant I work for is booking projects 8months away slide the level to ensure it floats between the two lines... To learn about parts that John Zink has printed on the Studio system more! Of decors world 's most impressive monuments are made of marble you Finish your basement floor tiles! Pouring a self-leveling mortar in the depression in concrete can overheat a,. And dealing with the finished concrete outside part of what 's bothering me here is how deep floor. Bathroom tiles so you think you are opting in to receive e-mail is... To 6-foot beam level on your floor formed and cast in the level to ensure it floats between slab depression for tile.